F-22 Raptor - discussione ufficiale

[Andrea STPP]

Dei problemi che hanno messo a terra il Raptor se ne parla qui:

 

http://www.aereimilitari.org/forum/topic/15693-f-22-fleet-grounded/

 

Per qanto riguarda invece il velivolo precipitato prova a dare un'occhiata qui:

 

http://www.aereimilitari.org/forum/topic/15063-disperso-f-22-in-alaska/

Ok grazie

[TT-1 Pinto]

Si va verso la chiusura ....

 

DATE: 07/09/11

SOURCE: Flight International

 

Lockheed starts final assembly on last F-22A

 

By Stephen Trimble

 

 

Lockheed Martin has started final assembly on the last F-22A Raptor ordered by the US Air Force, but the delivered fleet remains grounded over concerns about the pilot's breathing system inside the cockpit.

 

Lockheed has mated the fuselage sections of the F-22A with USAF serial number 09-4195. In final assembly, the company's workers in Marietta, Georgia, will instal the wings, tails, landing gear and Pratt & Whitney F119 engines, among other avionics integration and check-out tasks.

 

The last of 195 aircraft ordered by the USAF, including 185 remaining operational airframes, is now scheduled for delivery early in the second quarter of 2012.

 

The updated schedule is delayed slightly from the company's plan last year to deliver the last F-22A before March. Lockheed halted deliveries to the USAF while the F-22 was ordered grounded by the Air Combat Command after 3 May.

 

That order continued to be in effect after this article went to press, although the fleet's status could change quickly.

 

Although the fleet is technically grounded, some F-22As have been allowed to fly for specific reasons. As Hurricane Irene approached the US east coast in late August, the USAF scrambled F-22As and other fighters away from Langley AFB, Virginia.

 

USAF officials have confirmed that hypoxia was ruled out as a potential cause of the fatal F-22 crash at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska, last November. The actual cause of the incident has not been released.

 

That unexplained crash and a string of reports of hypoxia illness prompted the USAF to voluntarily stand down the F-22A fleet. The service is continuing to study aircraft onboard oxygen generating systems (OBOGS) for the F-22A and several other aircraft, including the Lockheed F-35A.

 

The OBOGS investigation is led by a scientific advisory committee chaired by Gregory Martin, a retired USAF general and fighter pilot.

 

[zak fair]

quindi ancora non si sa se volare sull'f22 da vita a casi di ipossia

[TT-1 Pinto]

Il "Raptor" ha un "avversario" ....

 

.... dal "Daily Report" dell' "AFA" (U.S. Air Force Association) di oggi ....

 

 

Langley-Eustis Talons Begin Operations:

 

The 27th Fighter Squadron at JB Langley-Eustis, Va., has commenced initial operations with its T-38 adversary aircraft.

"Our whole mission requires us to train against the Raptor," Col. Derek Wyler, 27th FS director of T-38 operations, told the 'Daily Report' in a recent interview at the joint base.

Squadron officials could not complete mission qualification of the pilots who will fly the T-38s in training drills against the 1st Fighter Wing's F-22s until after the Air Force leadership lifted the fleet-wide F-22 grounding in late September, said Wyler.

That's because "there was no one for them to train against," he explained.

Air Combat Command established the T-38 Adversary Air Program to provide the wing's Raptors with cost-effective air-to-air training.

"You essentially get more training at a much lower cost," since "you don't have to have . . . F-22s replicating bad guys," explained Col. Kevin Robbins (1), 1st FW commander, in an interview.

There are seven T-38s assigned to the wing, with a possibility of expanding to 14 airframes in Fiscal 2013, said Robbins.

The 325th FW at Tyndall AFB, Fla., is also receiving (2) T-38s for enhanced combat training.

(See also Raptor Versus Talon (3).)

 

—Arie Church

 

 

 

Links ....

 

(1) .... http://www.jble.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=14498

 

(2) .... http://www.airforce-magazine.com/DRArchive/Pages/2011/October%202011/October%2012%202011/TalonTimeatTyndall.aspx

 

(3) .... http://www.airforce-magazine.com/DRArchive/Pages/2011/April%202011/April%2007%202011/RaptorversusTalon.aspx

 

 

A Tenuous Talon-Hold on Pilots:

 

The T-38 Adversary Air Program at JB Langley-Eustis, Va., hopes to begin flying eight sorties a day, up from an average of six, dueling the 1st Fighter Wing's F-22 Raptors.

"We have very limited full-time manning positions [two to be exact] for the T-38 right now—you're looking at it," said Col. Derek Wyler, 27th Fighter Squadron director of operations for programs, gesturing to a fellow instructor during a recent interview with the 'Daily Report'.

The squadron, which falls under the 1st FW, manages the T-38 program.

"We didn't get any additional bodies to fly T-38s, so we've come up with some creative ways to do it," said Col. Kevin Robbins, 1st FW commander, during a separate interview at the joint base.

The program has been drawing on a pool of dual-qualified F-22 pilots, staff pilots from Air Combat Command headquarters at Langley-Eustis, and pilots from the Virginia Air National Guard's 192nd FW, the 1st FW's associate unit.

With each pilot chipping in an average of five sorties a month "our scheduler's got a pretty challenging task, but he manages to make it work pretty well," said Wyler.

[Vultur]

Il che la dice lunga sulle doti del t38, che è un aereo di 50 anni fà.

[Flaggy]

A pochi mesi dalla chiusura della linea produttiva è stato assegnato a Lochkeed Martin un contratto che nel corso di una decina d'anni potrebbe arrivare a includere modifiche ed aggiornamenti per 7.4 miliardi di dollari (e siamo a 40 milioni al pezzo..).

Il costo esorbitante è per rivedere l'architettura avionica un po' datata di questo velivolo, per come strutturato poco adatta a subire aggiornamenti (non si è usato uno schema ad architettura aperta e a livello computer di bordo siamo poi di qualche generazione indietro...)

Lo standard 3.2 prevede tralaltro la compatibilità con Aim-9X, Aim-120D, data link aggiornati per dialogare meglio con altre piattaforme, aggiornamento al radar AESA (gli ultimi prodotti già adottano elementi dell'antenna dell'F-35), miglioramento delle capacità con le SDB (se ne potranno rilasciare 8 tutte assieme e non solo 2 alla volta...).

 

Ci saranno dentro altri aggiornamenti e standardizzazioni per uniformare la linea su una configurazione comune e ridurre i costi di gestione, ma forse è troppo poco per questa cifra considerando che sembrano restare sul tavolo ulteriori upgrade (quelli 3.3) che prevederebbero elementi radar laterali (l'F-22 era già predisposto) per aumentare il campo visivo dell'attuale AESA, un IRST (anche per questo c'era la predisposizione), oltre a un casco visore che è già utilizzato su altre piattaforme e che consentirebbe di sfruttare al massimo gli Aim-9X (evidentemente non si ritiene prioritario il combattimento WVR un supercaccia stealth...).

 

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f22-raptor-procurement-events-updated-02908/

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/22/lockheed-usa-f-idUSN1E7AL05R20111122

[Tuccio14]

Certo che tra costi iniziali ed aggiornamenti gli F-22 verranno a costare uno sproposito... Se da una parte è un bene per il contribuente statunitense sapere di essere protetti dal miglior caccia al mondo (perchè di questo stiamo parlando checchè ne vogliano i detrattori) non saprei quanto piacere gli faccia spendere tutti quei soldi per avere questa consapevolezza.

 

Faranno in modo da predisporre il software per ulteriori aggiornamenti o manterranno l'architettura chiusa?

[Flaggy]

Faranno in modo da predisporre il software per ulteriori aggiornamenti o manterranno l'architettura chiusa?

Dal primo link che ho postato.

 

Development funding for the full Increment 3.2 was expected to begin in FY 2012, and a $7.4 billion contract was issued on schedule in November 2011. The question is what those upgrades will entail. Increment 3.2 has run into problems, and is now split into a 3.2a (by 2014) and 3.2b (by 2017), while costs rise and delivery dates slip. There may be even a hardware focus at the end of Increment 3.2, if a USAF effort to examine the full replacement of the F-22’s core systems with a modern, open architecture software and hardware framework (vid. the F-35) bears fruit. If the idea looks affordable, it could become Increment 3.2c, for installation by 2020.

 

In sostanza...Se non costa troppo si farà verso la fine dei famosi 10 anni di upgrade che il contratto prevede.

[Tuccio14]

Grazie per aver sopperito alla mia pigrizia!

[TT-1 Pinto]

L'ultimo ....

 

The final F-22 rolled off the assembly line at Lockheed Martin's production plant in Marietta, Ga., Dec. 13, 2011.

This F-22, tail number 4195, completes the Air Force's order for 187 production Raptors.

Aircraft No. 4195 now moves into production flight check before its delivery to the Air Force in 2012, according to the company.

Here, Raptor No. 4195 stands at the end of the production line

Fonte: Air Force Magazine.

 

 

Il comunicato di Lockheed Martin ....

 

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Reports/2011/December%202011/Day14/121311raptor.pdf

 

 

Le attrezzature per la produzione dell'aereo verranno però conservate ....

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/13/us-fighter-usa-lockheed-idUSTRE7BC09T20111213

 

 

[eugy78 Fishbed]

SI SI....

 

 

 

 

http://www.dailypress.com/news/military/dp-nws-wire-ga--last-fighter-jet-20111213,0,455348.story

 

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=8556375&c=AIR&s=TOP

 

http://www.wsbtv.com/ap/ap/aerospace/last-f-22-raptor-jet-to-roll-of-ga-assembly-line/nFz7d/

Modificato 14 Dicembre 2011 da eugy78 Fishbed

[TT-1 Pinto]

Amy Butler fa il punto sulla chiusura del programma "F-22" e pone particolare enfasi sul fatto che l'attrezzatura di produzione verrà accuratamente conservata ....

 

Non si sa mai ....

 

Fonte: Aviation Week and Space Technology

 

Last Raptor Rolls Off Lockheed Martin Line

 

By Amy Butler - Washington (Dec. 27, 2011)

 

 

With the final F-22 rolling off Lockheed Martin’s assembly line last week, the Marietta, Ga., facility is now focusing its efforts on making its C-130J and C‑5M operations more efficient.

 

The Raptor business is not dead, though. A massive program, once estimated to cost as much as $8 billion to modify the twin-engine stealthy fighters, is under way and delivering through the next several years.

 

The $67 billion F-22 program was the Air Force’s most ambitious fighter project to date. While this led to the fielding of a revolutionary capability—craftily dubbed the “fifth-generation” fighter capability by Lockheed Martin’s marketing officials when it was eyed for termination over less-expensive legacy models—it also embodied an ethos in the Air Force to pursue high technology at all cost.

 

Civil and military onlookers suggest that this ambition took on a life of its own and eventually became a weakness. This came to head in June 2008 when then-USAF Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley and then-USAF Secretary Michael Wynne were asked by then-Defense Secretary Robert Gates to resign following multiple missteps, including unauthorized lobbying by the Air Force to buy more F-22s than approved by Gates.

 

After 20 years of design and production, what began as an effort to buy 650 fighters capable of evading former Soviet radar defenses to escort bombers to targets there came to an end with Raptor 195 rolling out of the final assembly facility Dec. 13—22 years after the Berlin Wall came down. The USAF has purchased 187 combat F‑35s with eight test models.

 

(Qui la giornalista ha evidentemente preso una bella cantonata .... forse pensava di trovarsi ancora a bordo della "USS Wasp" in occasione delle prime prove in mare dello F-35B .... )

 

The F-22’s tooling, which once covered 250,000 sq. ft. of the plant and employed, at its peak, 900 people, will now be dismantled for storage; 150 workers remain dedicated to final checkout and testing of the last Raptor. Delivery to the Air Force, its only customer since the U.S. forbade international sales, is slated for next year.

 

Tooling from Lockheed’s F-22 work in Fort Worth and Boeing’s wing and aft-fuselage facility in Seattle has been categorized and put in storage at the Sierra Army Depot in California(*), says Jeff Babione, vice president and general manager of the F-22 program. The remainder of the tooling in Marietta will be sent to California by the end of next year.

 

In preparing the tooling for storage, Babione says Lockheed was able for the first time to use multimedia resources. The goal is that future workers who need to pull items out of storage to craft a part will have videos of today’s line workers’ methods for reference.

 

This has already been put to the test. An inlet part for a Block 20 aircraft at Tyndall AFB, Fla., needed to be replaced though there was no spare requirement for it. Parts were located in storage and electronic book references helped workers to craft the item, Babione says.

 

Once the F-22 tooling in Marietta is stored, the space will be dedicated to parts to support growing C-130J production—the rate has recently increased to 36 per year—as well as the C-5M retrofit line. “The current flow is not optimum for those two lines,” Babione says, adding that travel time for tasks on the production floor are expected to decrease once the new parts storage area is established.

 

Though the company has been ramping down employees and investment on the F-22 since the Pentagon decided in 2009 to end its purchases, there is still some overhead from the program that will be absorbed by other programs in Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Systems, including the C-130J, C-5M and F-35. “They will all see an increase in their rates because of the loss of the work in this factory,” Babione says.

 

Overhead has been an issue of interest for senior Pentagon officials as they negotiate new contracts against the backdrop of potentially draconian spending cuts to defense. Earlier this month, Brett Lambert, industrial policy chief at the Pentagon, noted that some contractors still must shrink their physical footprints for savings.

 

Lockheed officials contend that the new parts storage area will prove valuable to the customer by providing efficiencies in assembling the airlifters.

 

Meanwhile, the company is continuing work on modification packages for the Raptor. The first, increment 3.1, will be fielded in the next two years and is designed to use the active, electronically scanned array radar to provide mapping from “extremely long ranges,” and allow for improved autonomy to attack ground targets with the new 250-lb. Small-Diameter Bomb. Also included are some undisclosed electronic protection systems.

 

Two smaller updates—4 and 5—designed for AIM-120D and AIM-9X launches, respectively, are slated to be finished around 2015.

 

The next major increment—3.2—will include the long-awaited integration of Link 16 onto the F-22 to finally allow it to communicate with legacy fighters. It will also include improvements by using the onboard F-22 sensor suite for enhanced guidance of the AIM-120D and AIM-9X.

 

The Air Force is also eyeing use of an automatic ground collision-avoidance system on the F-22, although a contract has not yet been negotiated for that work.

 

The price of Raptor 195 is $152 million, up from roughly $300 million in then-year dollars for the first aircraft, including engines but not the amortized cost of development.

 

 

 

(*) .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_Army_Depot

 

 

[carlo90]

Leggevo un po' in giro per il web che la Russia (e forse la Cina) stava mettendo a punto sistemi radar di detezione di minacce stealth quali F-22 ma persino B-2. E' possibile o sono solo dicerie volte a seminar incertezza sulle reali doti stealth di questi aerei (ma soprattutto dell'F-22)?

[vorthex]

sono panzane, non dicerie

[davide9610]

Leggevo un po' in giro per il web che la Russia (e forse la Cina) stava mettendo a punto sistemi radar di detezione di minacce stealth quali F-22 ma persino B-2. E' possibile o sono solo dicerie volte a seminar incertezza sulle reali doti stealth di questi aerei (ma soprattutto dell'F-22)?

gli unici radar in grado di vedere l'F-22 e il B-2 sono quelli a bassissima frequenza che però non possono ne aggganciarli ne inseguerli.

[carlo90]

Esatto, avevo proprio sentito questo, radar a bassissima frequenza (lunghezze d'onda dell'ordine di decine di centimetri) per "scovare" gli stealth. E va da se che se lo vedi nel radar a bassa frequenza e non in quello tradizionale non può che essere un F-22 o un B-2 (o un F-35). Cosa ne pensate? Non potrebbe questo fatto ridimensionare l'"invisibilità" in una specie di "visibile ma non abbattibile"?

[vorthex]

no. sul forum se ne è già discussione molte volte, non ripetiamoci.

[Andrea75]

E' già allo studio il sostituto dell'F22. Ecco un concept del nuovo fighter di 6° generazione (targato Lockheed Martin’s) source

 

[TT-1 Pinto]

Vedasi in merito .... http://www.aereimilitari.org/forum/topic/16432-miss-febbraio/

 

Modificato 9 Gennaio 2012 da vorthex

[fabio 22 Raptor]

beh ragazzi... c'era chi sosteneva che il caro F - 22 fosse l'ultimo "figlio" della guerra fredda e invece si sbagliava .... infatti stanno nascendo i "nipoti" della guerra fredda... Sukhoi Pak - Fa, e lo stealth made in cina Chengdu J-20 ... per non parlare del Pak - Da ( il bombardiere ) ... la stealthness ormai viene concepita come elemento essenziale nello sviluppo di un nuovo aereo o nell aggiornamento di un modello esistente ( Silent Eagle / Silent Hornet ), ed è per questo che secondo me l'USAF prima di pensionare il suo gioiello (mai "impegnato") ci spenderà su qualche soldino ( fermo restando che Obama lasci qualcosa dopo i suoi tagli) .. io penso che il raptor sarà aggiornato sopratutto nelle parti Hard e Software per garantire una architettura più incline a futuri aggiornamenti... con l' F-15 che si avvia verso la fine, e l'F-35 non pienamente affermato ( nonchè inadatto a parer mio al ruolo di detentore dell' air supremacy) l'USAF cercherà di tenere in vita il Raptor facendo magari un investimento un pò più corposo inizialmente per renderlo "aggiornabile" , e poi con vari upgrade .... la sesta generazione sarà degli UAV purtroppo ... il concetto di supremazia aerea è quasi da dimenticare negli scenari attuali dove spesso ci troviamo difronte alle cosidette guerre asimmetriche, anche se non credo che comunque nessuno voglia correre il rischio di pensionare i "veicoli manned" specialmente difronte al "pericolo" India/Cina/Brasile che sono in crescita

 

Ciao a tutti

[meason]

a dir la verità lo spettro di una guerra simmetrica non è per niente svanito: un possibile conflitto in iran o anche la guerra in libia lo dimostrano. inoltre la designazione f di f35 vuol dire fighter: caccia. in ogni caso cina, india e brasile si stanno solo prendendo lo spazio che si meritano nel mondo (anche se talvolta il modo in cui lo fanno è discutibile).

[samuflight]

scusate la mia ignoranza ma l'f-22 non è stealth?

[-{-Legolas-}-]

scusate la mia ignoranza ma l'f-22 non è stealth?

Certo che lo è.

[windsaber]

Esatto, avevo proprio sentito questo, radar a bassissima frequenza (lunghezze d'onda dell'ordine di decine di centimetri) per "scovare" gli stealth. E va da se che se lo vedi nel radar a bassa frequenza e non in quello tradizionale non può che essere un F-22 o un B-2 (o un F-35). Cosa ne pensate? Non potrebbe questo fatto ridimensionare l'"invisibilità" in una specie di "visibile ma non abbattibile"?

 

Non ho mai capito sta cosa deriva dal fatto che le 'vernici stealth' usano un fenomeno di fluorescenza per funzionare? O è semplicemente che non coprono le bande L e C?

 

Per individuare un mezzo furtivo con radar simili occorre avere più sensori e triangolare i segnali, un pò come fà l'AN/ALR94 dell'F22

Modificato 3 Marzo 2012 da windsaber

[TT-1 Pinto]

Il primo volo dell'ultimo ....

 

Final Raptor Takes Flight

 

The Air Force's final F-22 Raptor—tail number 4195—conducted its first test flight in Marietta, Ga., this week, announced manufacturer Lockheed Martin.

Company test pilot Bret Luedke flew the aircraft during Wednesday's sortie.

This aircraft—the last of 187 production F-22s built on the company's Marietta assembly line—is slated to complete flight tests by the end of May.

At that point, the company will formally deliver it to the Air Force, which plans to assign it to the 3rd Wing at JB Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska.

Raptor 4195 rolled off of the assembly line in mid December, some 15 years after the first F-22.

(For more on Raptor 4195, read The Last Raptor from Air Force Magazine's February issue.)

 

Link .... http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Documents/2012/February%202012/0212raptor.pdf

 

 

Fonte .... Daily Report (AFA) Friday March 16, 2012